Ambassador of Norway: We can learn a lot from Lithuanians in front of Russia

– How would you describe the current human rights situation in Norway? What are the main challenges you face? Or maybe everything is just perfect?

– Nobody is ever perfect. When it comes to freedom of speech and human rights in general, I think Norway is a pretty successful country. The policy of promoting human rights has been in place for decades and is the backbone of Norwegian society. If we look at the international rankings, we can see that Norway ranks quite high in different areas, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have any problems. This is best reflected in the Universal Periodic Review of the United Nations Human Rights Council.

In November, Norway received recommendations in the areas of child care, gender-based violence, especially when it comes to the definition of rape and the related issue of consent. In addition, there were recommendations related to the rights of migrants, mainly on hate speech and hate crime.

One of the challenges of our country and the autochthonous topic: we have Sami population in the country. Their history in Norway is very long, so we must pay special attention to it, do more than is done today to support Sami rights. There are also concerns about the rights of people with disabilities.

– Social networks are a particularly favorable medium for spreading misinformation. The messages or advertisements appearing in them are often directed at certain groups of society. Which groups of people in Norway do you think suffer the most from misinformation?

– I would say that the most vulnerable are those groups that are already marginalized. People with lower education and young people are also less resistant to it. He is particularly exposed to such information due to his high involvement in social networks and may not always have the same opportunities to double-check the facts and delve into published information.

Our society is not immune to such changes, so an open discussion on these topics in the media, as well as on the part of the government, is essential. We must remain careful that we do not end up in a situation where anti-Semitic or anti-Islamic movements begin to grow rapidly.

Disinformation is a well-known problem. This is both a national and an international challenge. I think it is very important that Norway tries to fight this and helps other countries to do so. Allocating funds to Lithuania to continue this fight.

The most profound crisis Norway faced was the terrorist attack on July 22, 2011, when the far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik attacked and killed 77 people.

– In recent years, Sweden has been shocked by several alarming cases of discrimination directed against religious minorities, specifically Muslims. More than once, the Koran was publicly burned, whoever challenged it protests of local communities. Have you noticed an increase in disinformation campaigns on social media that incite hatred against certain groups or even acts of violence?

– It is difficult to assess whether they are increasing or not. But this question comes up again and again. Burning the Koran is a good example. Meanwhile, the most profound crisis Norway faced was a terrorist attack in 2011. on July 22, when far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik attacked and killed around 70 people at a Workers’ Youth Union summer camp, detonated a car bomb and destroyed government buildings in Oslo. A total of 77 people died.

He was a lone wolf, but his manifesto and followers on the Internet got a lot of attention, and later he had a significant influence on certain individuals, not only in Norway, but also internationally. . Of course, it is not easy to prevent this.

Be that as it may, we are not protected from the events that take place in the world, in Europe or in the same Scandinavia. What affects Sweden can also reach Norway or Denmark in different ways.

– Could you name what means are trying to influence the society? What are the most common ways disinformation is spread?

– Now more than ever, new technologies are used for this, which makes it more difficult to fight them. Used for disinformation deepfake’aimanipulated narratives, algorithms, engaging and artificial intelligence. This is not limited to the activities of state-level actors, campaigns often involve influencers, podcasters who do not necessarily know that they are being financed by, for example, Russian intelligence. I think these are not just Norwegian challenges. These are challenges for all of us.

– Norway has a very strong civil society. Can it be said that it is much more resistant to misinformation? How does it work?

– I would say that the degree of trust in both the Norwegian government and its institutions or the media is quite high. Meanwhile, trust in non-governmental organizations and civil society in general helps preserve a certain openness of society. They can criticize the government, even if it is painful for us, but in the long run it is very important. The ability to preserve these core values ​​is also significant from a security perspective.

– In September, you were appointed Norwegian ambassador to Lithuania. What do you think Lithuania could learn from Norway? What are our biggest gaps?

– I see that Lithuanian society has changed tremendously over the past decades. I mean, it has obviously improved since the Soviet era and continues to improve. For many years, we have initiated and supported many human rights-related projects in cooperation with Lithuania. Today, we see the fruits of these programs and projects in various fields.

In Norway, we feel Russia’s presence every day.

I would like to rephrase the question and talk about what, in my opinion, Norway could learn from Lithuania.

First, awareness in the face of Russian disinformation. I think that the way Lithuania, its society, and the media act, evaluating fake news, fake information, reveals that the ability to separate the chaff from the grain is already ingrained. Such lessons are very important to us.

After 2022 February 22 the situation has changed a lot not only in Ukraine, Lithuania, but also in Norway. We all still have a long way to go, but a lot has changed both nationally and internationally. Implemented and especially significant changes within NATO itself, we have greatly increased the volume of cross-border information sharing.

I see the North-Baltic Group of Eight (NB8) as a cornerstone in the face of this threat. Our geographic location helps us create threat assessments, share information to coordinate common policy, respond to Russian hybrid warfare, disinformation.

Yes, in Norway we feel Russia’s presence every day. Moscow infiltrates itself in many forms, including the influx of fake news. It intervenes in the spheres of energy security and energy policy. It also stirs up public concern and tries to exploit the resulting social tensions.

We recently discussed that, in fact, Russia has been trying to use the Soviet memorial sites in Norway for its propaganda purposes for many years. They see it as one of the ways to penetrate Norwegian politics, to influence it and reap benefits for themselves.

– In the fall, Norway will have parliamentary elections. The last elections in Sakartvel, Moldova, Romania were not without Russian interference. Do you think similar challenges await you?

– We are aware and we are preparing for it. However, as the events in Moldova, Romania and Sakartvel have shown, this time things are a little different. Interference in the elections is carried out with the help of new technologies and social networks, thus trying to influence the persons who have the right to vote. The scope of such interference is also much greater than before. Therefore, bigger challenges await us.

We have already seen the consequences of the use of nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So just hinting at it or sending a signal that it’s a possibility is crazy. It can’t be.

We are not immune to these changes, we have to be more careful, more aware. But I believe that the Norwegian government and society are strong enough. I am sure that the parliamentary elections in September will definitely take place and it will be done through open, democratic methods.

As I mentioned, everything boils down to the need to promote trust in institutions, civil society itself, and democratic processes. There is such an old proverb, but I like it very much. According to her, trust comes on foot, but leaves on horseback. This means that it takes a lot of time to build and establish trust.

If you are careless, everything will just slip through your fingers and then you will be in serious trouble. You have to work for it every day, all the time. If the national government fails to maintain public trust, we will be in a much worse position than we are today. If we are lucky, we may be able to enjoy the democratic tradition for another two hundred years, but that does not give us immunity.

– Perhaps one of the most prominent, widely used Russian disinformation campaigns includes rhetoric about the possible use of nuclear weapons against European capitals, the Baltic countries, and Ukraine. How do you rate it?

– This is completely reckless rhetoric. We have to resist it. We have already seen the consequences of the use of nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So just hinting at it or sending a signal that it’s a possibility is crazy. It can’t be. The best defense we have as allies is a shared deterrence and defense capability. As a result, both Lithuania and the rest of the NATO bloc are increasing defense spending.

Norway currently has a 12-year plan approved by parliament to increase the capabilities of our military. We also plan to exceed the specified 2 percent. gross domestic product defense expenditure limit and in the coming years, I have no doubt, we will increase it. Either way, we must stick together as we always have.

After all, NATO is the most successful defense alliance and we must continue to work for it. I believe that this is the only way to stand against talk or intentions to use nuclear weapons.

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The interview is published in cooperation with the Lithuanian Center for Human Rights.